Cautionary Note (was): AI::GA

[Arthur T. Murray]

If you want to contribute to the AI mind problem, and not
just brag falsely that you already have but are universally
misunderstood, start by bringing yourself up to speed [...]

Kent, in the AI gene pool has been spawned the origin of species:
http://www.seedai.e-mind.org/jsaimind.html -- JavaScript AI and
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/mind4th.html -- AI in Forth.

Now it is up to others who come after us in the neogenesis of Mind:
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/cpp.html -- C++ with new AI code;
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/java.html -- see "Mind.JAVA #001";
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/lisp.html -- Lisp AI Weblog;
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/perl.html -- first Perl module;
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/prolog.html -- Prolog AI Weblog;
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/python.html -- Python AI Weblog;
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/ruby.html -- Ruby AI Blog (OO AI);
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/scheme.html -- "Scheme AI Weblog;
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/vb.html -- see "Mind.VB #001" link.

http://ai.meetup.com -- AI Meetup Day -- is the gathering of storms.

"Alea jacta est" -- the die has been cast for Supermind evolution.

Do not try to censor or mock or sidetrack the memes of mentificium.
"The Internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it."

History is made by unreasonable men.

A.T. Murray
--
http://doi.acm.org/10.1145/307824.307853 -- ACM SIGPLAN Notices;
http://www.sl4.org/archive/0205/3829.html -- comments by Dr. B.G.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0595654371/ -- AI textbook
http://www.kurzweilai.net/mindx/profile.php?id=26 - Mind-eXchange

[Larry Elmore]

Post by Arthur T. Murray

If you want to contribute to the AI mind problem, and not
just brag falsely that you already have but are universally
misunderstood, start by bringing yourself up to speed [...]

Snort.

Post by Arthur T. Murray
http://www.seedai.e-mind.org/jsaimind.html -- JavaScript AI and
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/mind4th.html -- AI in Forth.
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/cpp.html -- C++ with new AI code;
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/java.html -- see "Mind.JAVA #001";
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/lisp.html -- Lisp AI Weblog;
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/perl.html -- first Perl module;
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/prolog.html -- Prolog AI Weblog;
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/python.html -- Python AI Weblog;
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/ruby.html -- Ruby AI Blog (OO AI);
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/scheme.html -- "Scheme AI Weblog;
http://mentifex.virtualentity.com/vb.html -- see "Mind.VB #001" link.
http://ai.meetup.com -- AI Meetup Day -- is the gathering of storms.
"Alea jacta est" -- the die has been cast for Supermind evolution.

"Alea jacta est" -- the die _is_ cast. Either way, it hardly means that
it will (or has) come out the way you want it to.

Post by Arthur T. Murray
Do not try to censor or mock or sidetrack the memes of mentificium.
"The Internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it."

Skepticism and even ridicule are not censorship. Faulty ideas can be
interpreted as "damage", too, and routed around.

Post by Arthur T. Murray
History is made by unreasonable men.

Unfortunately so. Far too many of them were thoroughly nasty people with
deeply flawed personalities who inflicted great amounts of suffering on
both their believers and their opponents once they had enough of a
following to make a difference. Thankfully, the vast majority of kooks
just eventually disappear. Those that don't usually latch onto a bigger,
more charismatic kook to follow.

--Larry

[Nick Maclaren]

Post by Larry Elmore
Snort.

Actually, I think that he may be right. The behaviour of large
computer systems is already better modelled using biological methods
than physical engineering ones! We don't have a clue how they work
(in detail), they respond to stimuli, though not always predictably,
and so on. Given the sizes of code bases, is it QUITE certain that
there are not entities that would fall within the definition of life?

Yes, of course, the current ones can't be as advanced as bacteria,
because the mechanisms of replication are controlled from outside
(i.e. by humans), but they might, just have reached viral level.
Probably not, in my view, but it is no longer the case that I can
be quite sure. And people are working on making software self-adapting
and self-replicating, which could take things up a notch.

Of course, AI stands for Artificial Idiocy, though God alone knows
why we want more idiocy, given the ample natural supply.

Post by Larry Elmore

Post by Arthur T. Murray
"Alea jacta est" -- the die has been cast for Supermind evolution.

"Alea jacta est" -- the die _is_ cast. Either way, it hardly means that
it will (or has) come out the way you want it to.

Grrk. Here I must supoprt him again. That is the present perfect,
which is often rendered in English by the pluperfect.

Post by Larry Elmore

Post by Arthur T. Murray
Do not try to censor or mock or sidetrack the memes of mentificium.
"The Internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it."

Skepticism and even ridicule are not censorship. Faulty ideas can be
interpreted as "damage", too, and routed around.

They can be part of censorship. In this case, I can see no evidence
that Arthur Murray is not being given ample opportunity to present
the facts of his case. I can't say that I have seen any, but absence
of proof is not proof of absence.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

[Larry Elmore]

Post by Nick Maclaren

Post by Larry Elmore
Snort.

Actually, I think that he may be right. The behaviour of large
computer systems is already better modelled using biological methods
than physical engineering ones! We don't have a clue how they work
(in detail), they respond to stimuli, though not always predictably,
and so on. Given the sizes of code bases, is it QUITE certain that
there are not entities that would fall within the definition of life?
Yes, of course, the current ones can't be as advanced as bacteria,
because the mechanisms of replication are controlled from outside
(i.e. by humans), but they might, just have reached viral level.
Probably not, in my view, but it is no longer the case that I can
be quite sure. And people are working on making software self-adapting
and self-replicating, which could take things up a notch.

I don't disagree at all with any of this. I was snorting at Mr. Murray's
implicit claim that _his_ AI project is the "origin of species" as far
as AI is concerned.

Post by Nick Maclaren
Of course, AI stands for Artificial Idiocy, though God alone knows
why we want more idiocy, given the ample natural supply.

Lord knows I have an over-abundance of it from time to time...

Post by Nick Maclaren

Post by Larry Elmore

Post by Arthur T. Murray
"Alea jacta est" -- the die has been cast for Supermind evolution.

"Alea jacta est" -- the die _is_ cast. Either way, it hardly means that
it will (or has) come out the way you want it to.

Grrk. Here I must supoprt him again. That is the present perfect,
which is often rendered in English by the pluperfect.

Speaking of an over-abundance of idiocy. <bang head on table>. Of
course, you're right. I can only say in my defense that my Latin is
limited and that I've seen it translated that way many times, including
in my "New College Latin & English Dictionary." Arg. I am but an egg.
<slink away quietly>.

Post by Nick Maclaren

Post by Larry Elmore

Post by Arthur T. Murray
Do not try to censor or mock or sidetrack the memes of mentificium.
"The Internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it."

Skepticism and even ridicule are not censorship. Faulty ideas can be
interpreted as "damage", too, and routed around.

They can be part of censorship. In this case, I can see no evidence
that Arthur Murray is not being given ample opportunity to present
the facts of his case. I can't say that I have seen any, but absence
of proof is not proof of absence.

I disagree that they're part of _censorship_. Censorship would be
deleting Mr. Murray's posts and shutting down his web sites, or shouting
him down in public so no one can hear him. He is certainly getting his
claims out -- I'd just like to see something more solid than the
grandiose claims I've been seeing for several years now.

--Larry

[Rich Alderson]

Post by Larry Elmore

Post by Arthur T. Murray
"Alea jacta est" -- the die has been cast for Supermind evolution.

"Alea jacta est" -- the die _is_ cast. Either way, it hardly means that
it will (or has) come out the way you want it to.

Sorry, no, "has been cast". The participle in question is not only "passive"
but also "perfect", and that's the way the perfect passive is formed in Latin.

Take a look at any Latin grammar book; I recommend any of Gildersleeve & Lodge,
Allen & Greenough, or Hale & Buck, though I'm partial to the first. (Look up
the humanities.classics FAQ on Google Groups.)